cross-blogging
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas
serialized
1844-46, published in book form 1846
My good friend
Chrissie Poulson and I decided to read this book and do some joint blogging on
it. For various reasons it has taken us a while to get to that point, but here
we go! We are both posting today, and Chrissie’s post is on her blog - we have very similar history with it, but different things to say
CHRISTINE POULSON The Count of Monte Cristo - CHRISTINE POULSON
I have a
long relationship with this book. When I was in primary school there was a teatime
serial of it on the BBC, and I was mesmerised, particularly by that business of his escaping
by pretending to be the dead body.
They put a
children's version of the book in the school library, and I can still visualize
it, feel it in my hands, oh the excitement - and it was a new shiny book too, I
presume connected to the serial. (And very much abridged, it was just a normal-sized book, which the full version
most certainly isn’t.)
My father
saw me reading it and told me it was banned by the Catholic church. I should
stress that he was by no means objecting to it, or forbidding me from reading
it - he would be telling me because it was interesting and funny. And the
reason was, he said, because it featured Justified Revenge, an unusual reason. Obviously
I took his word for this, and really it seems too good to check, but I have now
looked into it – results below. ****
I borrowed
it several times from school because I loved it so much, and I couldn't understand
why it was always there, why other people weren't borrowing it the whole
time. And then years later (and years ago now) I borrowed it from the
public library - and I was quite nervous in case my happy memories were going
to be smudged. But no, I thought it was splendid stuff. BUT - I realized
halfway in that the book in my hands was vol 1 of 2. I had to race off to the
library, heart in my mouth that vol 2 wouldn’t be there. Luckily, rather like
primary school, the good people of wherever it was had not scooped up all
available copies so disaster averted.
And now,
many years having passed again, I have re-read it.
No mean
undertaking: it is immensely long and you can see its roots in the serial form.
But still tremendous fun, leaping around all over the place. As a child, I
found Edmond Dantes’ early fate terrifying: He has been wrongly convicted and
thrown into the dungeons of the fortified island, the Chateau d’If. Years go
by: he is forgotten, with no prospect of release. Eventually he grabs his
chance: he gets himself into the shroud of a dead friend, and is thrown into
the Mediterranean as a corpse. (I can still visualize the TV version of his
fighting his way out of his weighted sack).
His friend
has given him some info on buried treasure (on a different island) and Edmond
works his way up to getting there – he joins a band of smugglers, who don’t ask
too many questions about his past. (And so he was mentioned in our recent blog Smugglefest). He ends up being phenomenally
rich, and then he sets off in truly admirable style to reward everyone who
tried to help him, and – more to the point – to take his awful revenge on those
who did him down. He does this in a heartfelt and extreme way, prepared to wait
a long time for his chance, and showing no mercy.
He is
super-clever, super-rich, a consummate actor, attractive to women, quick-thinking.
His servants love him. Mmmm…I wonder why the book has always been so popular?
In fact I think it’s the revenge even more than his James Bond personality. I
think it shows that all of us would secretly like to get back at everyone who
has done us down, and given the opportunity, and the huge amount of money, we’d
do that too. I’m not surprised that some people looked askance at the book.
We’ll have to hope that most of us don’t get the chance, or else that kinder
ways prevail.
The plot is
amazingly elaborate and ranges over many countries. He takes on various names
and personas – I was very happy with this
“What is his name?"
"If you ask him he says Sinbad the Sailor; but I doubt
if it be his real name."
There is
Carnival in Rome – ‘Albert was triumphant in his harlequin costume’.
There is a
young oriental lady who is definitely a worry to modern eyes:
Haydée was reclining upon soft downy cushions, covered with blue satin spotted with silver; her head, supported by one of her exquisitely moulded arms, rested on the divan immediately behind her, while the other was employed in adjusting to her lips the coral tube of a rich narguilah, through whose flexible pipe she drew the smoke fragrant by its passage through perfumed water. Her dress, …consisted of a pair of white satin trousers, embroidered with pink roses.
Picture by Alexandre-Gabriel
Decamps
There is an
extraordinary adventure where he uses the fairly recent invention of the
telegraph to manipulate the stock markets by delaying news…
There is a body being dug up: like father like son. Alexandre Dumas fils ie the son of this one, used this trope in his La Dame Aux Camellias, a scene that is not included in more romantic versions such as the Verdi opera La Traviata - La Dame aux Camelias by Alexandre Dumas Fils
There are parties:
one could see the garden ornamented with lanterns, and the supper laid under the tent. Dancers, players, talkers, all uttered an exclamation of joy—everyone inhaled with delight the breeze that floated in.
The Count
has his important views:
"a dead
father or husband is better than a dishonored one,—blood washes out
shame."
His final
moves are interesting. His first great love was Mercedes, who ended up marrying
the man who ruined the Count’s life. Will he think he needs revenge on her,
will he end up with her? I cannot reveal the ending. I did think about all
those Hollywood films where there were test screenings and the directors then
change the ending to match their wishes. Not an option available to Dumas…
It was a
long effort to read this, but it WAS worth it: it is a shameless book and it is
beyond criticism, you can’t judge it by normal literary standards.
As I once
said about another,
very different, book, he seems to have used up every single possible plot
from his head, it’s surprising he ever wrote anything else (he did, he wrote
loads, notably The Three Musketeers).
There have
been countless adaptations of the book, in all media, over the years, including
two recent screen versions. My favourite comment on all this is the person who
said that film-makers should be a bit more careful with their messing about
with the story, or there might be a new blissful headline:
“Count of
Monte Cristo returns to seek revenge on the moviemakers who slashed his story.”
I re-watched
the original one that won me over – you can find it on YouTube - and it is awful
and cardboard and creak-y and studio-bound and done on the cheap, but I can see why I loved
it, and yes I could see why the scenes of him in the water thrilled my heart. Others
I have sampled or seen years ago and they all blend into one – though I am sure
readers may be able to tell us which ones are superior.
*** So was
it banned or not? You’d think that was a straightforward yes/no question, but
it isn’t. There are varying views, and it is apparently not easy to get a full
list of the books on the Index. It seems clear that Dumas was on the
Index, but perhaps not for Justified Revenge, which is disappointing. We should
all be discouraged from thinking it’s a good idea, even though it worked for
the Count. He is not a role model.
A
recently-featured book
The Twenty-Third Man by Gladys
Mitchell
had definite
overtones of the Count of Monte Cristo – island setting, smugglers, bandits…




Love this, Moira, much funnier than mine. But do you think it really did work for him in the end? Chrissie
ReplyDeleteNo! I was trying not to spoiler, but my view is definitely that he should have softened at the end...
DeleteBut tell us more about the picture. It looks wonderful. The first AI-pictures you used to see were anatomically strange, but this one has the right number of everything. The only unusual thing seems to be the heavy gold chain round his neck. So how did you do it?
ReplyDeleteClare
I decided recently that I had to get to grips with AI, not be the old person moaning about it, so I did an online course, which was very helpful (while not being a great course - I think it may have been AI-generated, and I longed to edit and redo it. But the content was good)
DeleteI think like you, I associate AI-generated images with slightly unreal pics like v good animation. But I thought I ought to give it a go, so have been experimenting.
Part of me feels that I have spent years researching images, and, in all modesty, working up a really good intuition for where I can find the pictures I want. If AI can produce an illo in 2 minutes is that putting me out of business?
Welll not yet - the illos of, say, '1950s woman in New Look suit' are fine to show those kind of clothes, but no competition with a genuine 50s fashion photo.
So I decided to experiment with the Count, as there isn't a real Count to compare it with, he seemed a good subject: gave the date, man of fashion, French, and a couple of details from book.
I like it very much!
I will do a blogpost at some point, perhaps showing the real and AI New Look woman. Very interested in others's views. I can see that for certain things, such as when I want to show exactly what some garment or look consists of, it might be useful. For me, will never replace some of the pictures I have found in the past!
But it will continue to get better and better....
If no-one else will do it, I'll be the old person moaning about IT, so you'll know you have left not left its enemies behind.
DeleteAlfred Bester's Tiger! Tiger! alias The Stars My Destination is an SF classic unconsciously inspired by The Count of Monte Cristo.
I shall count on you (and any others?) to hold the line.
DeleteThat sounds so unlikely, the Bester book - should I be reading it?
It took me a while to realize that Alfred Bester was not the same as Alfred Bestall - who was, of course, one of the seminal Rupert Bear authors.
I haven't read the Bester for years, but I enjoyed it: wide-screen baroque SF
DeleteNow that's a genre to conjure with, wide-screen baroque SF. Niche.
DeleteAlfred Bester is well worth dipping into. He wrote before the word processor, so his books are a reasonable length. Besides the book Roger recommended, The Demolished Man is his other classic, and both are regularly reprinted. I also reread every five years or so his collection of short stories, "The Dark Side of the Earth" which I first read back in the late 60s.
DeleteHe seems to be an author whose influence on others was disproportionate to the amount he wrote. I think more people recognise the name from the TV series Babylon 5, which gave Walter Koenig (Chekhov from Star Trek) probably his best other role as an occasional guest star as a morally ambiguous telepath.
Oh, my, I haven't read this one in such a long time, Moira! I liked it very much, too, both for the adventures and for the history in the story. It's an interesting look at obsession, revenge, and a lot more, and I really liked the way Dumas wove so much into the book. It really is a saga, isn't it? Thanks for the memories.
ReplyDeleteThe book was part of our younger years - I'm glad we share that
DeleteThe original Hamlet is about justified revenge. In Shakespeare's version he is forced into it by a ghost, and it all goes wrong in the end! Times change?
ReplyDeleteOh that's interesting - it's always so instructive to find out what changes Shakespeare made in his plots
DeleteWhen I moan about screenwriters making changes to books, sometimes I think about the way Shakespeare played fast and loose with source material. But then, he was a genius so odds were that he could improve on the source! As did Hitchcock in his own way, with a bit more attention to plots.
DeleteI don't think I feel that strongly about it - so long as the books/originals are still there if we need them...
DeleteI have to admit to never having made it all the way through anything by a Dumas, père or fils, though I haven't given up on them - there's a copy of The Three Musketeers on my shelf (picked up mainly because the cover amused me) and I eye it occasionally before selecting something less substantial. Maybe I should start with the children's versions ...
ReplyDeleteSovay
There are worse ideas! Judicious skimming may be the answer
DeleteWell. My only reading of this was back when I was 10-ish, from my brother's collection of Classics Illustrated. They were comic book versions of Great Literature, and frankly, they WERE great. Introduction to everything you might later read or might never read. I can still see some of the pics in my mind's eye. Today, they'd be graphic novels. And why not?
ReplyDeleteYes absolutely - children would love the adventurous nature and it would be a great way to present the story.
DeleteI read it as a young teen and was fascinated by the web the Count spun to trap his victims. It bothered me to watch his heart turning to stone, though. He might have done tremendous good with his wealth--but do-gooding doesn't make for an exciting story! I think the Count was something of an anti-hero. I was on his side but felt a little guilty about rooting for him, even though the villains did deserve punishment.
ReplyDeleteI think you speak for all of us! but a shame Dumas didn't give him a gentler side at the end...
DeleteSpeaking of Dumas and terrifying fates, I'm reminded of The Man in the Iron Mask. It wasn't actually a stand-alone book but was part of the last Musketeers book, and has had several adaptations that ignore the rest of the story! That iron mask really creeps me out. TMitIM is based on a real prisoner, but the mask is believed to have been black velvet, not iron, and the prisoner might have been allowed to remove it when alone--not nearly as shudder-making, of course, as having an iron cage strapped onto one's head.
ReplyDeleteOh I'm like you, I was fascinated always by the story of TMITIM - the real-life aspects and any fictional versions. So creepy and disturbing, definitely a plotline to fascinate an imaginative child. It was one of the 'accepted' big mysteries that had never been solved - but I doubt young people now have heard of it. I am interested in the black velvet aspect.
DeleteSomeone commenting on this post on social media also mentioned the Iron Mask...
There was a(nother) remake fairly recently starring Leo DiCaprio and a stellar supporting cast, but I haven't seen that one. I saw an old movie with Louis Hayward and I'm sure there are even older ones. The one I'm familiar with has Richard Chamberlain and Jenny Agutter, both very pretty, and my ol' pal McGoohan as the villain. Ralph Richardson and Louis Jourdan (as D'Artagnan) were on the good guys' side (at least, per Dumas--although I'm not too sure how close that was to reality). The book was actually supposed to be the story of Athos' son and his doomed love for Louise de la Valliere (sp?) who was eventually the king's mistress. Funny how that has pretty much dropped by the wayside....But then, the Iron Mask business is so much more interesting!
DeleteI am as one mind with Cedric in Love in a Cold Climate:
Delete"I long to know who the Man in the Iron Mask was, don’t you, Lord Montdore? Do you remember when Louis XVIII first saw the Duchesse d’Angoulême after the Restoration? Before saying anything else you know – wasn’t it all awful or anything – he asked if poor Louis XVI had ever told her who the Man in the Iron Mask was. I love Louis XVIII for that – so like One."
I’ve never read it, but did find your summary fascinating. Your father’s comment reminded me of the Index, something I don’t give much active thought to. In my high school our French IV curriculum was devoted to literature and our textbooks were university level French lit books. It was a convent school and whenever Mother Catherine, our teacher, wanted us to read certain chapters in our secular textbooks she would say, “For tomorrow I do not want you to read pages x to y in your texts. Be sure you do not read these pages very carefully.” We learned early on that this was her way of telling us the material was on the Index, and we did read those pages carefully although they were never discussed and never appeared on tests. I was out of college, another Catholic girls’ school, just before the Index was allowed to fade away, but realize now that plenty of the literary figures and philosophers we studied and/or were encouraged to read were on the Index.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am a not so anonymous Margaret
DeleteOh thank you, what a fascinating story! Great move by your teacher.
DeleteThe available lists of the Index (and these are online sources, so who knows?) are hilariously fascinating - I should think it would be a point of prided to be on it!
Many years ago, Cold War days, I came across files at the BBC which were 'persons accused by the Soviets of being CIA agents' and 'persons accused by American sources of being Communists'. Everyone and his dog was on one or other of them!
And then there’s Nixon’s enemies’ list from the Seventies. Today it would certainly be an honor to make any of the several lists Trump must have. Margaret
DeleteOh yes, you made me laugh with that- though it is black humour.
DeleteI would rather not see any AI at all in this space. I shall not go on and on about it, but I don't think it's at all a question of being out of touch. I think AI (as commonly understood - there are specific uses that actually make sense, but they're not the ones you generally hear about) is an ethical and environmental nightmare, and contributing heavily to the flood of misinformation out there.
ReplyDeleteOn more amusing topics, is Wimsey's harlequin outfit in Murder Must Advertise a callback to Dumas, do you think? Sayers certainly read that sort of thing, but I am pretty sure "harlequin" was a common masquerade costume around then anyway.
I think it's a tool which can be used for good or the opposite. I agree that many of the side-effects of its introduction have been devastating for some: which is true of nearly all technological advances.
DeleteI think Sayers/Wimsey were very much reflecting their own times, not harking back: I have written on the blog several times about the prevalance of costumes from the commedia dell'arte between the wars, and I gave a talk on fancy dress to the Bodies in the Library Conference. In a Wimsey short story there is reference to its being tiresome that everyone dresses up in the commedia costumes. There's a Josephine Bell murder story where the fact that the murderer is a harlequin at a fancy dress ball doesn't narrow it down sufficiently!
I find it very frustrating that AI, which has great environmental costs, has stolen real artists' and writers' work, and is undermining those artists and writers now, is considered an amusing toy, or as something one is an old fogey for objecting to. If having principles makes me an old fogey, then count me as an old fogey. Also isn't the whole point of the clothes and images the specificity, the tying to a real place and time - the very thing which AI loses and smooths over.
ReplyDeleteOn a brighter topic... there's a Japanese Anime version of the Count called Gankutsuou that I always meant to watch. The Count as a vampire... in space!
Look it up, the visual style is very distinctive, like nothing I've ever seen.
I am interested (always) to hear others' views, but do not think that represents the whole of AI and what it has to offer. I very much doubt I would be using it often for images, as I like the era-appropriate ones so much, but I can imagine that if I wanted to show something specific and technical I might use it again.
DeleteI did take a look at Gankutsou (which no, I had never come across) and the images were striking, and did not resemble any Count I had seen before! However they did look like my (uninformed) idea of Japanese anime - am I missing something?
Drawing-wise it's fairly traditional yes... but instead of colouring the lines in with, well, colour, they use textures and patterns. In motion it looks like a rather psychedelic collage come to life! (The poster seems to look pretty normal, now I search it up.)
DeleteAs you can probably tell, I have a lot of opinions (read:rants) about AI. In this case I think I put things in a very condescending way and I apologize. I do think talk of theft and AI is accurate here, since these services which respond to language with an image have been trained on as many images and text as the creators could get their hands on - and they didn't trouble about actually obtaining permission to do so.
Of course, this doesn't represent every type and usage of AI. But we don't have to accept all of them to accept one of them. There are many baths, and not every one has a baby in... I think companies promoting these general-use things would love us to think everything is in the same bath.
Anyway, I'll stop now...
So yes I was missing something, would have to watch it to get the effect, it sounds amazing.
DeleteYour views are welcome and not condescending. There is certainly room (and a case) for more care and control over what is going on. Though I fear - as perhaps you feel - that the floodgates are open.
Count of Monte Cristo is perfect reading when you are a child/teenager. Glad the RCC helped advertise it.
ReplyDeleteI find our jadedness towards AI amusing, for me it is still a miraculous technology.
Yes, I think it very much would appeal to teenagers if they could be brought to read it. Not your typical modern YA book.
DeleteI think AI has its place, and its good and bad sides...
I wonder whether the style and length of the book would really make it suitable for YA reading. The Folio edition of The Count of Monte Cristo, at over a thousand pages, could certainly double as a blunt instrument for self-defence if I were ever burgled. Certainly, the first version I read it was significantly abridged, and most of the plot of the first revenge was omitted.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the final Harry Potter books were similar verbose, but the audience had been hooked by then.
A Trotskyist fantasy author called Steven Brust has written some surprisingly amusing pastiches of The Three Musketeers and The Count of Monte Cristo. The latter is called The Baron of Magister Valley. He manages to parody both the long-windedness and the sense of adventure of Dumas in a genuinely affectionate manner. It is also very different from his usual style of writing, which is perhaps more reminiscent of John Scalzi.
On fancy dress, it seems to have been a common trope in Wodehouse and in the authors of the 1920s and 1930s to have people attending balls in Commedia dell'arte characters and the interchangeability of Pierrot costumes I recall as being frequently a plot point.
No definitely not the full version - or at least not as a starter. I am intrigued by the idea of a graphic novel.
DeleteThe Brust book sounds a clever combo - parodying long-windedness is a tricksy venture!
Costumes: yes, in one story you have a whole pierrot costume over a harlequin outfit, for handy changes.
Marmee here ...As I said to christine, this book has never crossed my path but I plan to remedy that and will go find a copy in the new week. Probably also in one of the nearby libraries. I am also interested to see if it will interest my grandson!
ReplyDeleteOh great - love the idea of your getting the next generation involved
Delete