Annoying detectives - do we have
room for them all?
In my last post,
The Layton Court Mystery by Anthony Berkeley
I mentioned that series sleuth Roger Sheringham was annoying, and said in passing that maybe we needed a list of annoying detectives. I'd actually planned a different post for today, but the subject brought a lot of suggestions (always my hope) and my dashed-off list of my own ideas is getting bigger by the minute ('how could I have forgotten X?') so I'm putting it out there now - and you can get a good start on those pesky investigators in the comments on the first post.
Of course please post your own comments, suggestions and arguments. Bring them on!
This is my off-the-top-of-my-head list of
Annoying Detectives
- not in any particular order:
1) Roger
Sheringham, Anthony Berkeley’s series sleuth. There is an
important distinction here in that he is clearly meant to be annoying – where
so many others are obviously loved by their creators.
2) As in:
Lord Peter Wimsey, the creation of Dorothy L Sayers who was
deeply in love with her idealized man. I love the books, love Sayers, they have
been with me for most of my life and I will continue to reread my favourites of
her oeuvre forever. But still – someone should have stopped her from portraying
LPW in such a cringe-making manner, and making Harriet D Vane such a Mary Sue
character
3) Tommy
and Tuppence Beresford, everybody’s least favourite of Agatha
Christie’s detectives. They are arch and annoying, and Christie never
really got a handle (apparently) on how old they are at various points – the
timeline goes crazy throughout the books. Postern
of Fate is a candidate for being her worst book of all, so
only right that T&T are there being irritating. The Beresford books also
make for the worst TV adaptations – I don’t know that anyone’s every bothered
with an actual film.
4) Adam
Dalgliesh This was PD
James’ usual policeman and he is grim, horrible, judgemental – and also one
of the leading poets of his day. We know we are meant to like a character when
Sir sees a copy of one of his books on their shelf. I recently wrote about
authors who invent characters solely to give them awful traits and then despise
them: PD James is the mistress of this, and – guess what? - Dalgliesh shares
her views. I also quoted recently Curt Evans’ spot-on judgement that PD James was
prone to ‘the idealization of the learned professional class’.
5) Inspector Alleyn. From the Ngaio Marsh novels. The main objection is that he has the nickname ‘Handsome’ Alleyn, which is a most unconvincing idea. Also, I said in one of my posts:
Marsh goes even further than usual in showing us clearly
who is nice and who isn’t. At one point, while interviewing suspects,
Alleyn has this thought:
As he lit his pipe he was visited by a strange
thought. It came into his mind that he stood on the threshold of a new
relationship, that he would return to this old room and again sit before the
fire.
Not to spoiler, but do we seriously then think that anyone living in the house concerned is any longer implicated in the crime?
7) Patricia
Moyes’ detective was Henry Tibbett, and while I often
enjoyed the books, I found him an awful man, and particularly disliked
the way he treated his wife Emmy – a couple of times actually
putting her in the way of danger.
8) I know many people love these books, but I can’t bear Donna Leon and the awful Commissario Guido Brunetti and his wife and his lovely meals of Italian food. They set my teeth on edge with the opinions served up as fact, the weird hatred for the Catholic church (what did they ever do to Leon?) and the self-satisfied air. They nearly ruin Venice for me. (not quite).
9) John Banville – writing sometimes as Benjamin Black – has a series of crime novels based in the past featuring DI St John Strafford. They are awful, Strafford is awful. When I read one called Snow, I complained afterwards that the detective was incompetent and did no detecting. The person I said this to replied that there were next to no murders in Ireland in the 1950s, so the poor fictional policeman would have had no experience. Fair comment. However, I considered the book to be horrible, predictable, lazy and shoddy and apparently not edited at all. He may be able to write a Booker-Prize-winning novel, but he can’t write crime and he doesn’t know enough about the Chalet School (see specialist complaint here).
10) A comment on the first post reminded me how much I dislike Inspector Lynley and his sidekick Barbara. Lord Snooty and Minnie the Minx, as someone close to me always called them (the same person who knew about Irish crime as it happens). I dislike the posho, object to some of the least convincing dialogue in any book ever, and also feel that Elizabeth George has set her books in the UK but gives the impression that she has never spent any time here at all – when I try her books I am constantly distracted by the basic items she gets wrong about everyday life in the UK.
That’s 10, and then I’m going
to add in a couple more who are not ready for the full list. I suspect if I
read more of Caroline Graham’s books I would hate Barnaby, but I haven’t got
there yet. Blogfriend Marty had this helpful gloss:
I read the Midsomer books after having seen them on TV, and was very surprised (and yes, repelled) by Troy. It was a good thing they changed him for TV, although the first episode had Barnaby being unnecessarily snarky to him. That's a good thought that he was written to make Barnaby look better!
Michael Innes’ Appleby is the hallmark of a boring book for me, but I’m not sure how annoying he is. The Norths in the Lockridge books are always teetering on the edge of being infuriating, but not quite falling over, and the same applies to dreary Lady Lupin, whom I know many people like.
Blogfriend Dame Eleanor Hull said this:
I've been surprised by how
unlikeable I find various detectives in televsion adaptations (Dalgleish,
Lynley) and I can't decide if I'm misled into liking someone whose point of
view I'm taking while reading, if other people read characteristics and ways of
speaking very differently from the way I do, or if this is an artifact of
adapting to the screen, either deliberately or because of that loss of
interiority.
Which I think will resonate with many people.
And my friend Chrissie said:
Honestly, when it comes to GA detectives, it might be easier to say which ones aren't annoying in some way.
So right – have at it. You can argue with mine and add your
own…
(Use tags or the search function to find posts featuring these detectives. Pictures are mostly from previous posts, people who might be annoying detectives, victims etc)






Have you seen the newer TV versions of Lynley & Havers? Not at all like the earlier ones, and not at all like the books (surprise!)--obviously aimed at today's younger viewers. Whether they're any less annoying than the originals is debatable, although I found them too uninteresting for annoyance!
ReplyDeleteNo - I couldn't bring myself to watch it. I am done with Lynley.
DeleteI 100% agree with you on these, Moira. Which, I realise, might be a bit annoying ... I would definitely add Joyce's Porter's Inspector Dover and Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer.
ReplyDeleteOh great additions, I nearly included Dover, but took him out, thinking I might reread...
DeleteIs Lord Peter the Fanny Price of detective fiction? There seems to be a quite a divide among readers' opinions of him. I discovered him in the Ian Carmichael TV series and have a sentimental attachment, but I've found it harder to read the books than it used to be. Sad that Sayers fell in love with him, but I've never seen Harriet as a Mary Sue--she got cross and grumpy once in a while! Ngaio Marsh was snarky on the subject, but she was almost as bad with Alleyn who was a male Mary Sue IMO.
ReplyDeleteYour first sentence is excellent! But why can't a Mary Sue be grumpy? - I am guessing Sayers would think it justifiable. And I have aways felt tht Vane was so plainly an idealized DLS, the original Mary Sue....
DeleteSimilarly, for me, memories of Ian Carmichael in the solo adaptations and Edward Petherbridge and Harriet Walter in the romance adaptations make it easier to read the DLS books than it might otherwise be.
DeleteFrom what I have read about the men in her life, I'm not entirely surprised she preferred her fictional creation. I always liked the story that when she started writing him, when she was feeling at her most impecunious, she would write about him enjoying the expensive luxuries of life
In relation to adaptations, it is normally easier in a book to convey ambiguity in the way the author intends or to show that a detective is aware of his prejudices or is doing things because the job demands it.
I don't doubt that Harriet is an idealized DLS, and I don't think Sayers is he only author who has done that with a character. Maybe Harriet is an idealized version of me, too, because I could identify with her more than with Troy, for instance. At least "The Vane" has more character than the love interests of many other detectives....
DeleteAdriandominic makes a good point about adaptations. It must be screenwriters' and actors' biggest challenge to make it clear what's going o n inside characters' heads, in a camera-friendly way. (Not to mention how their interpretations may differ from those of the viewers, but that is bound to happen no matter what they do!)
DeleteAdriandominic: you make very good points, and yes, DLS did not have good luck with men. I think perhaps no adaptation can match the nuance of a book.
DeleteMarty: I just had a hilarious moment when I thought you were talking about Barnaby's sidekick Troy! ! But no, I know you mean Alleyn's wife, and indeed Sayers did a lot more with Vane than most authors would've. And Harriet is a much better choice than Troy (either of them)
I read somewhere that Roy Marsden, the first Dalgliesh actor (I think), referred to the character as "Doris" so he may have shared your low opinion....
ReplyDeleteThat's hilarious!
DeleteYou've got quite a list here, Moira. It's funny, too, how some of these fictional detectives can really divide readers. Some absolutely adore them, and some... do not. Marty above makes an interesting point about detectives being, well, interesting. I wonder what's worse: an annoying detective or one who's not engaging enough to be annoying?
ReplyDeleteGood point Margot. I do find some of the classic police detectives dull - which is not the same as annoying
DeleteI suppose that in some types of detective fiction, the detective isn't supposed to be the most interesting aspect? I think Inspector French is pretty bland in himself, but his tracking down of the criminal(s) is the real attraction of those stories, so the detective's personality (or lack thereof) isn't so important.
DeleteI didn't explain that very well...of course tracking down the culprit is the point of all detective fiction, but in some books what the detective DOES is more important than what he IS. (Don't know if that's a good explanation either, but I'm giving up on it!)
DeleteI completely agree with that for one single reason, it leaves the books shorter. Nowadays half of every book in a popular series concerns itself with the inner emotional turmoil of the detective, his private life or lack of etc etc and that leaves us with books seldom under 450 to 500 pages, half of it has nothing or very little to do with the crime. Some started their series with books around 350 pages (Elizabeth George) and rarely finish now before page 800. Or Ian Rankin with 210 pages (first book) and up to nearly 600 and now back to more manageable 350 pages. It's a pet complain of mine I know but Christie rarely needed more than 220-250 pages to tell her stories.
DeleteMarty very good justification for a less-than-wildly-exciting cop...
DeleteAnd Jotell - I couldn't agree with you more. What has got into everybody?
Marty: that is a very good justification for a less-than-wildly-exciting cop
DeleteJotell: I couldn't agree with you more - what has got into everybody?
This is a very amusing article. Now please give us a few that you don’t find annoying. Or, perhaps, that you find annoying, but like anyway.
ReplyDeleteThank you. Favourite detectives is a very appealing idea - I think there might be more disagreement there. I will certainly work on it.
DeleteYou left out Philo Vance! He is the one detective that I prefer in films, William Powell in the Kennel Murder Case was fabulous. The books are tedious. Chris Wallace
ReplyDeleteI second the Philo Vance nomination. In books, he is unbearable.
DeleteYes, I can see he is the People's Choice for annoyingness. I failed to include him because I read one, then skimmed maybe two more, so his opporunities for annoying me were limited.
DeleteHis reputation proceeds him, so some of us avoid him! I'm sure he is a great detective, but not one I'd like to know better.
DeleteAnd I second the comment about William Powell!
DeleteI haven't seen any Philo Vance films, but I do have a major liking for William Powell
DeleteIt's a popular saying: Philo Vance needs a kick in the pants.
DeletePerfect reason to avoid him.
I should have said precedes not proceeds.
DeleteThere are obviously no defenders of Philo Vance
DeletePowell made four films as Vance, with Eugene Pallette as the cop who works the cases and likes to grumble about Vance. There were other Vance films with different actors, too. The Canary Murder Case has Louise Brooks as the victim, although I read that she was dubbed by someone else (who had a really annoying voice). The Kennel Murder Case is the best, and has Mary Astor as one of the suspects.
DeleteI will have to see if I can find them
DeleteI know you can find The Kennel Murder Case on YouTube.
DeletePowell is a revelation for anyone who gave up on Vance. I'm not sure the man ever turned in a bad performance.
DeleteAs I say above, I love Powell, and you all are certainly doing a good job persuading me to pursue this
DeleteThe films' Vance was more likable, I think, than the books' Vance--from what little I've read of them! Part of the difference was Powell, of course, but the scripts themselves had him being nicer in general. I think Basil Rathbone may have come closest to the "real" Vance, but he was so good in not-so-nice roles! And even Rathbone's Vance wasn't unbearable, I thought.
DeleteI feel Philo is greatly misunderstood - mostly by those who may have read the Ogden Nash couplet but no Van Dine! I think he is wonderful in BISHOP MURDER CASE, though in at least one of the footnotes Van Dine corrects Vance. Which is to say, he is meant to be a bit annoying - that automatically makes him less annoying, surely :)
DeleteInteresting to think of Basil Rathbone in the role.
DeleteAnd Sergio - I'm glad someone is putting in a good word for him!
I've read excerpts from the Vance books, including descriptions of Vance, and have never felt the urge to get to know him better! He sounds much too Mary-Sue-ish for me to enjoy him, even if he were a nicer guy. I'm still with Ogden Nash.
DeleteI've read a few of the books, and that seems like enough
DeleteI find Albert Campion with his gnomic utterances and pointlessly complex but unexplained past very annoying. TIGER IN THE SMOKE was great in part because he's hardly in it. Henry Merrivale, super annoying. Go away, you are not boisterously funny and charming!
ReplyDeletenbm
You made me laugh, and I admire your firm views - even though they are both detectives that I quite like.
DeleteI've despised Campion ever since he furiously proclaimed that his sister needed "a corrective rape" in The Fashion in Shrouds. Not to mention him marrying a woman half his age that he originally met when she was only 17, and who was explicitly described as looking at her visitors "with the regard of a child." Even though he didn't actually marry Amanda until a few more years had passed it left a bad taste in my mouth.
DeleteSadly neither of those things would have seemed odd at the time
DeleteI've never thought of Amanda as a "child bride"--she seemed to grow up fast, and was bright and self-assured enough to hold her own with Campion. The rape remark is nasty though, and to think it was written by a woman!
DeleteI think the age difference can fairly be seen as 'of its time'. With the rape remark the sister, Val, does fight back and object to it, and says 'this mania for sex-to-do-you good is idiotic'. Not to take it lightly, but I think they are using the word differently from how we would now.
DeleteYes. In opening night the antiheroine uses "seduc tion" when she means rape. They don't seem to have a word for it. Fashion in shrouds is a srange book. One day I'll deconstruct
Deleteyes, Fashion in Shrouds ripe for investigation! It's a very odd book, but I have never let its downsides put me off it completely...
DeleteThe whole question of how things were described and defined is very much worthy of study
I've always found Dalgliesh & Wexford almost indistinguishable from each other - that both love/quote (admittedly, great) poetry incessantly doesn't help. But then, both well-reflect the worlds created for them by their authors: James' seething psychologies beneath unendurable lives & cynical veneers of civilization; Rendell's teeming & deviant psychoses, termiting British "high propriety." These are worlds where the light's already failed - as opposed to, say, Christie's worlds of blissfull innocence (ignorance?), where black is black, white is white, and puzzle-pieces merely fall out of place, occasionally.
ReplyDeleteWhat a great description, I'd love to see your arguments developed further...
DeleteI am chocked to find Elizabeth George is not British.
ReplyDeleteDr Priestly by John Rhode is mostly boring, but occassionally annoying when he berates police officers for making assumptions, before announcing one can safely make some other assumptions.
Much as I love Carr, I find his detectives occassionally annoying, most often when Carr thought they were funny.
I think the author actually lives on Planet George, and sets her books there.
DeleteDabbling in John Rhode doesn't really give me an opinion.
I would find the Carr detectives very annoying (and, as you say, unfunny) if I didn't have such a soft spot for him and them - I can see why others don't get on with them
Martha Grimes also sets her books in England despite not being British. I don't remember if she or George was being referred to, but I read a remark about a drinking game based on her books-- taking a drink every time she was wrong about some aspect of English life!
DeleteOh that's very funny Marty! I certainly wouldn't dare do that with George, and am about to read a book by Grimes...
DeleteI may have mis-remembered the drinking game, but it was definitely some form of fun with her bloopers.
DeleteIt's a great idea, wherever it's come from!
DeleteWhen I first tried the Mrs Bradley books, I found her annoying. Reading them again, I find her more entertaining. I suspect Mitchell was doing a caricature of many of the Great Detective tropes? And I can't think of any actress who could really portray Mrs Croc in all her grotesque glory. The series with Diana Rigg was really well-done, but they made so many changes that they might as well have made her into a brand-new character!
ReplyDeleteYes, Mrs B was obviously meant to be a contrast with other detectives, and she achieves that very well. There might be a case for Margaret Rutherford. Or Frances de la Tour?
DeleteFrances de la Tour, definitely!
DeleteSovay
I think she might be just right
DeleteShe's a little tall for the role, but otherwise fine!
DeleteI think her advantages would make up for any perceived dissimilarities
DeleteGoodness.... I stay off CiB for a morning, and look what I miss! I know, I know...I did say I'd enjoy a post of this ilk. Even so, I hope we'll have a follow-up with detectives we'd like to spend time with.
ReplyDeleteYes - let's accentuate the positive next time! Though I think such a list would provoke more argument. No-one is saying 'oh no they are lovely' about the ones I don't like, but I'm sure there'll be people ready to do down my favourites. (I can take it though)
DeleteSusan again
DeleteOkay, then I'll add that I like Harriet Vane very much. Except for her annoying habit of claiming she's sending Peter away, but still letting him hang around and propose at regular intervals. Miss de Vine at the end of Gaudy Night finally told her to fish or cut bait.
I'm on Team Harriet too, and my impression was that she was truly "afraid of commitment" in spite of actually liking Wimsey. It wasn't very fair of her to keep vacillating, but then Wimsey could've walked away at any time too. He sort of enabled her bad behavior!
DeleteI think Sayers got a bit carried away with the idea of Harriet's holding Wimsey off, and it could have been made a lot shorter! Qualms seem reasonable, but it got a bit much. But, as I said above, I love the book and I do also love Harriet.
DeleteAs a teenager I took an immense dislike to Ellery Queen on the strength of one book, to the point of determining never to read another - which was quite something in the days when I was constantly desperate for new books. But so many years have rolled since that I can’t now remember exactly why I hated him so, though I’m pretty sure that condescending treatment of his father played a part.
ReplyDeleteI’ve just read my first Patricia Moyes - Dead Men Don’t Ski - enjoyed it and didn’t mind Henry Tibbett, though I was struck by his tendency to treat Emmy as his sergeant, having her sit in on interviews and sending her off on errands. I assumed this was related to his being abroad and without access to the resources he’d normally have when carrying out an investigation, but from what you say in the main post I’m guessing that may not be the case.
Sovay
Yes, they have an odd relationship. But I also think - it's a while since I read it, but isn't it true that Emmy is the one person in the party who has skied before, so she brings her expertise to the cse? It's always quite charming when something like skiing (or foreign travel, or foreign food) features in such a book, and the assumption is that the readers will know nothing about it, and can have it all explained to them. so much has changed
DeleteWasn't the Ellery Queen character inspired by Philo Vance? The writers gradually moved him away from that model over the years, I suppose as readers' tastes changed.
DeleteEmmy does have some skiing experience, though not really enough for her knowledge to be important to the investigation. Henry shows no sign of being threatened by the fact that his wife is better at an active, skilled sporting activity than he is, which is a point in his favour.
DeleteMarty - I've never read any Philo Vance but I've read a description of him somewhere as "early Peter Wimsey turned up to 11", and my vague recollection of Ellery Queen is something along those lines. Presumably Philo Vance was popular and so worth imitating in his day. Perhaps I should give Ellery Queen another chance ...
Sovay
Marty, It would be interesting to know exactly who inspired Ellery Queen. I felt he improved over the years.
DeleteSovay, yes I agree - a point in Henry's favour. You prob should give EQ another try
Wiki has a good article on Vance, including a quote from William Powell about why he didn't like playing detectives! Apparently the Vance novels were very popular for a while but became dated quickly. The Wiki article on Ellery Queen says that Queen was inspired by Vance but that the writers became disenchanted with Vance.
DeleteThat's interesting, and makes sense. Thanks for the extra info
DeleteI disliked two of John Creasey s series:Roger(handsome) West and George Gideon. I did enjoy most of his other series but these two series were obnoxious
ReplyDeleteI haven't read the West series, but I did like Gideon! Also the TV series with John Gregson. I could hum you the theme tune...
DeleteRe Ireland and murders in the 1950s, I couldn't help thinking of the Magdalene laundries. Though presumably nobody was investigating them anyway, so it hardly alters the point.
ReplyDeleteNo-one would have considered that murder - negligence, cruelty, disposal of bodies, perhaps even manslaughter, but not murder.
DeleteI love your description of Dalgliesh! And LPW would get very annoying extremely fast with all that flinging quotations around, but he does have good qualities (he can handle a punt, for instance).
ReplyDeleteI think that's just part of Sayers giving him brilliance and talent in every area! It's annoying...
Delete"Giving him brilliance and talent in every area" is something a lot of authors are guilty of with their heroes (including Mrs Bradley, but that's tongue-in-cheek). And there's the supposed attractiveness to all women, as if we didn't have our individual tastes! Martha Grimes' detective Richard Jury is a great offender there, he's terribly handsome of course, like Alleyn and so many other heroes. At least Lord Peter is funny-looking! I used to like his quotations butI'm finding that habit less attractive now, in him and others. Mrs Bradley's sidekick Laura is a great one for quotations, and Mrs Bradley calls it annoying.
DeleteI don't know why quotations and detective stories go together so much, but in the Golden Age they certainly did. Michael Innes is another one showing off the whole time.
DeleteNot only is Roderick Alleyn annoying in his own right, but the annoyance carries over to Br’er Fox. When Alleyn calls him twee little names or patronizes him, or implies that he (a Detective Inspector)is only good for gossiping with housemaids, I desperately want Fox to answer back, or give him a glare - have some dignity, Inspector Fox, roll your eyes at him at least.
ReplyDeleteNerys
Uncle Remus allusions probably wouldn't be acceptable anymore, either.
DeleteYes, nicely put, I think we can all agree on all of that
DeleteI will add Paul Temple who is a smug know-it-all (at least in the radio version I heard recently) and his wife Steve is just as irritating! Chrissie
ReplyDeleteYes, I would agree with that. And his wife being called Steve is annoying though I would be hard put to justify that
DeletePerhaps heresy to suggest this, but could Miss Silver be at times (ahem) a little annoying? Chrissie again
ReplyDeleteCertainly the coughing could get on one's nerves!
DeleteNow I thought about that, and decided that for me she is not annoying. But I can see others would find her so...
DeleteI'm not sure you would hate Barnaby, Moira, IIRC he was more on the dull side. That's why I was surprised by the snark in the first episode. (And he didn't continue to put down Troy in later episodes. Troy became almost a friend of the Barnaby family, much sadness was displayed when he left Midsomer.)
ReplyDeleteI think you underestimate my ability to find people annoying Marty!
DeleteI saw an old movie featuring a detective called Dr Morelle who really annoyed me. I saw a reference to him on The Invisible Event blog which sounded as if I wasn't the only person he irritated!
ReplyDeleteTo judge by the short stories featured in the BLCC short story collections, Morelle was deliberately written that way, especially his rudeness to his secretary. It appears that aside from the film, he mostly appeared on the radio in the 1940s and 1950s, which suggests that he was popular. According to Wikipedia, he was billed as "the man you love to hate."
DeleteThe actor playing Morelle had a good radio voice, that was the only thing I found to like about him! I don't much care for deliberately rude detectives--I start wishing they were the murderees instead. Andy Dalziel is another such, sometimes he's funny but I could still do without him.
DeleteNo judgement on Morelle. But I don't find Andy Dalziel annoying at all, I enjoy his distinctive personality
DeleteWell, annoyance is very personal, isn't it? Like you I'm kind of surprised that there's so much agreement in this post!
DeleteJust to be "disagreeable" I'd have to say that I'd trade Dalziel for Sloan anytime. To each her own....
DeleteIt's interesting isn't it - I'm convinced that if I did a post on favourite detectives people would be much more worked up and voicing their objections. I'm trying to work out why that is.
DeleteAnd you can keep Sloan and I'll keep Dalziel!
Oh, and just one more thing....Some people (including my mother) have found Columbo annoying, although they are no doubt outnumbered by his fans.
ReplyDelete😊
DeleteSovay
I am fond of Columbo, though if I were a suspect in one of his cases I certainly wouldn’t be.
DeleteIf we’re looking at detectives who are annoying to the other characters - but not necessarily to the reader/viewer - I’d like to nominate DC Crosby, the enjoyably insensitive and not terribly bright sidekick of Inspector Sloan in Catherine Aird’s books. The force boasts a far more competent junior officer (whose name I can’t recall) and at the beginning of each investigation Sloan enquires hopefully for him, only to be told that he’s on secondment/away on a training course/ otherwise unavailable, and dim-witted Crosby is the only option. I haven’t read that many of CA’s books so Crosby may pall with greater familiarity, but so far I am amused …
Sovay
And every once in a while Sloan says hopefully "We'll make a policeman of you yet!"--I've been an Aird fan for years, and that hasn't come to pass. But sometimes Crosby surprises him (and us)! Superintendent Leeyes is equally annoying (to Sloan at least) in a different way. His night classes are a running joke in the books. I would think those books might be quite hard to dramatize, since a lot of the interest comes from what's going on in Sloan's head.
DeleteColumbo is fine with me.
DeleteThe Aird books - I find Sloan quite annoying himself, so I'm less bothered by his being surrounded by irritating people
Let's add Simon Templar (if he hasn't already been nominated. Insufferable and a Mary Sue.
ReplyDeleteYes indeed, a worthy addition
DeleteI got so annoyed with Elizabeth George that I've not read anything of hers beyond the execrable and unforgivable "What Came Before He Shot Her" which REALLY highlights everything that is bad about her. How dare this privileged American woman presume, from the rose-perfumed ivory tower she imagines is up her own posterior, that she can write with such spurious intimacy and claimed insight about the life of an impoverished Black boy in London and his world. The sheer dripping superiority and condescension and the obvious lack of awareness of even basic London geography and life was mindblowing. I read the book, I finished it, but I came away feeling nausea and complete disgust at what it had revealed about the author. She should NEVER have written it. She had no right to. I'm sure she'll bray like an extremely well bred horse that she had every right to, but it was so incredibly offensive that where I used to find something camp and enjoyable about the the weird takes on Englishness in the earlier books, it all just felt loathly and soiled and sordid thereafter. How can someone so evidently invest so much time in research and fact gathering and then somehow get everything so wrong?
ReplyDeleteFor me, where I started to see the cracks was with For The Sake of Elena (Why are her titles so crap?) where she was writing about d/Deaf culture and she had obviously done all her reading and peering through her jewelled lorgnettes at the fascinating little deafies and their interesting little hand shapes, then swanned home and written something that had absolutely no veracity or relation to reality. I would say Elena was one of the books that literally changed my life/perspective because it vividly illustrated to me the dangers of an author who writes about what they don't fully understand, thinking they absolutely get it, and they don't. But I still read her with fascination at how she kept missing the point, how unreal and how weirdly American her idea of England was, until I came to He Shot Her. And that's when the amusing deluded Anglophile's inability to get anything correct ceased to be amusing, and became utterly offensive.
Blimey, that was a rant!
DeleteObviously it's gone way beyond annoyance for you! Setting books in a different culture from your own seems like a risky business, unless maybe you've lived in it for quite a long time. Research can only take you so far, and there are so many pitfalls. Same with historical fiction, but that's safer because there's nobody left to know if you get it wrong!
DeleteWell--Daniel, speaking as an American, What Came Before was also the book that prompted me to give up on George (though I confess that I still, eventually, get around to skimming in the library to find out what is going on in Havers' life), and Marty, nobody from the time period but I have been known to throw historicals across the room, not to mention that there is a genre of movie/TV show known in my house as 'twitch and moaners' because that is what I do while watching. I'm the one who is always wailing about no gloves/ no hat/ inappropriate thickness of newspaper, that sort of thing.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDame Eleanor, I often visit frockflicks.com and can understand your frustration with period pieces! I'm no expert but I've been noticing such things too. There seems to be a general feeling that if they're too historically accurate they won't be "relevant" to today's viewers!
DeleteDaniel: I am glad you made this comment, and not only because it confirms and extends what I thought about George. I had stopped even dabbling in her books by that time - I think the last one I read was the one before the one you mention. Your critique sounds entirely justified.
DeleteAnd Dame E and Marty - i'm always up for criticism and historicals, books and screen, sometimes drive me mad. but I do occasionally appreciate the point that they are making entertainment, and also trying to draw people in. If I like it, it's OK - if it annoys me then obv it is wrong 😉😉😉
I had a similar almost visceral reaction to a book, in this case Innocent Blood by P.D. James. The attitudes in the story toward the child murderers made me vow never to read a book of hers again. I don't miss her. When we connect with an author's mind, it can be transcending - in this case it was revolting.
DeleteI also utterly despise The Fashion in Shrouds, but that's one for the unpopular opinions thread.
Nerys
Innocent Blood made me very uneasy when I read it, and it is very memorable. The snobbishness of the adoptive father bothered me, even without the final interaction with him.
DeleteWhat really puzzles me is why I went on reading PDJ for years, even though I only enjoyed 2 or maybe 3 of the books, and hated Dalgliesh
A few disjointed thoughts after reading the above discussion.
ReplyDeleteRereading the above, it is interesting to me that until the last ten years or so, the authors who survived the longest had the most eccentric/irritating detectives. While being a glass-half-full man by disposition, I don't mind Alleyn and Campion and rather like Wimsey.
Compared with them, FWC's Inspector French and Bellairs Inspector Littlejohn disappeared from bookshops, as did Carol Carnac's detectives, perhaps in part because their detectives were so normal.
One of my favourite early GAD authors, R A Freeman, had a detective Dr Thorndyke, whose scientific experiments were more convincing than Holmes's was affable, but apart from enjoying a good meal and smoking a brand of cigars called Trichinopoly, I am hard pressed to say anything about him as human being, as opposed to his methods of detection. Considering he was an author who arguably invented the inverted crime story and the forensic detective story, he comparatively vanished after his death.
Does Poirot escape calumny because Agatha Christie was aware of his potential to irritate and wrote accordingly? In principle, he should be every bit as annoying as the others, but somehow, he isn't.
In the case of Merivale, imagining him played by James Robertson Justice, à la Sir Lancelot Spratt, has always helped.
Again, on casting, how about Miriam Margolyes as Mrs Bradley? I can imagine her doing the cackle with enthusiasm
Thanks, that's a really fascinating thoughtful theory. And wholly convincing, I'm here thinking 'of course!' With the more forgotten authors, I sometimes can't remember whether there is a series policeman, whether this is the same investigator as last time - which absolutely supports your point. I would never mix up a Poirot with a Marple.
Deleteand that's very true about Poirot, I find him surprisingly un-annoying.
Yes, Margolyes would certainly do for Bradley!
I see the point, but surely Vance and Merivale were eccentric enough to be remembered?
DeleteI had to think hard about Carol Carnac/ECR Lorac - was there a series detective? Yes there was, at least in the recently republished Lunedale books - Robert something-or-other - not exactly memorable. People reading those books now may have a rather different slant on them than the original readers - my enjoyment of them has certainly come as much from the setting and historical interest as from the mysteries and their solutions.
DeleteI've picked up a bumper volume of RA Freeman's short stories recently and am enjoying them (though with much internal muttering of "of its time, of its time" with respect to the casual anti-Semitism) but have to agree with the Anon above - no personal characteristic of either Dr Thorndyke or his Watson, Christopher Jervis, has made any significant impression on me.
I was thinking the same as Anon and CiB about Poirot – he should be more annoying than he is, what with the overwhelming self-satisfaction and harping on the little grey cells and tendency to rearrange the ornaments. Not to mention the eyes periodically glowing green like a cat’s, though that’s more implausible than annoying.
Not sure about Miriam Margoles for Mrs Bradley, partly for the same reason as I’m not sure about Margaret Rutherford – Gladys Mitchell doesn’t hold back from referring to the noteworthy aspects of Mrs B’s appearance and I think if she were as broad as she’s long, it would have been mentioned.
Marty - can't comment on Vance but I do find Sir Henry memorable ...
Sovay
Mrs Bradley is long and crowlike and skinny. In the most recent one I read, she cross country ran in her knickers or something like that to get assistance.
DeleteSovay and anon - I agree with your comments on her build, but I still contend that MM could convey some aspects of Mrs Croc's character and ability to disconcert her listeners as well as anyone could - also, the Dame's bizarre choice in clothes would seem to be something she could carry off. Most other candidates would probably suffer from the Diana Rigg problem.
DeleteOn Freeman, oddly, his assistant/factotum (somehow it is conveyed that servant is the wrong word), Polton, is a more distinctive character than Jervis or Thorndyke. I also could have done with more touches for Jervis, like the one at the end of a short story where he records his disappointment that the young lady, whose true love had been saved from, thinks better of her obvious immediate response to kiss Dr Thorndyke.
Marty - i would count Carr amongst the comparative survivors
Marty - but Vance and Merivale ARE still remembered, and are annoying, bearing out the comment.
DeleteSovay - yes exactly how I feel about Carnac, she was in my mind when writing the comment.
I don't think physical shape has to be exactly right. I'm still really going for Frances de la Tour
I blogged on the one where Mrs B undressed to run faster, and said how sorry I was that I couldn't find a suitable picture.
Adriandominic - you sum up the casting argument very well.
DeleteHonestly, I start to get these long-ago writers and detectives mixed up. Freeman Wills Croft. R Austin Freeman. Detective Dr Thorndike. Writer Russell Thorndyke.
They could have tried a bit harder to differentiate so I wouldnt get confused.