tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post1258557779536457945..comments2024-03-28T09:33:29.705+00:00Comments on Clothes In Books: Doctor Thorne by Anthony Trollope: part 1Clothes In Bookshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-79337704479842319302016-04-14T10:37:57.573+01:002016-04-14T10:37:57.573+01:00Yes, he seems such a nice man, and so very aware o...Yes, he seems such a nice man, and so very aware of the double standard. No, haven't read American Senator, but now I will! Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-41310307016072825742016-04-13T20:09:33.503+01:002016-04-13T20:09:33.503+01:00I do love dear old Trollope and agree that he is i...I do love dear old Trollope and agree that he is in some ways very modern. He understood so well the workings of the Victorian marriage market and was sympathetic to the difficult choices women often had to make. He understood that for the most part they simply HAD to get married. Have you read The American Senator? It's not so well known, but I think it is awfully good.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16510409974009816550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-80955995453133476832016-04-12T16:50:39.298+01:002016-04-12T16:50:39.298+01:00I think you may have mentioned his autobiography b...I think you may have mentioned his autobiography before, and I meant to get hold of it - I'm glad you reminded me. It's nice that you can usually get his books for free for the kindle. Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-54613879407231323832016-04-12T16:49:48.415+01:002016-04-12T16:49:48.415+01:00They are, you are right. There is a short one - Th...They are, you are right. There is a short one - The WArden - which isn't his best, but would give you an idea whether you would enjoy them. Or try a TV adaptation.Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-35411176219451784322016-04-12T16:49:03.481+01:002016-04-12T16:49:03.481+01:00Yes - I'm always struck by how modern Trollope...Yes - I'm always struck by how modern Trollope seems, particularly when compared to Dickens or Thackerary. (Wilkie Collins is more of a modern writer too.) I'm always intrigued by bonnets, the shoe comparison is probably apt. Clever girls could trim their own and make them look good, like Mary above. I do like looking at them in TV adaptations...Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-69882708479408572662016-04-12T16:47:00.823+01:002016-04-12T16:47:00.823+01:00I really enjoy using it. The one I found is in the...I really enjoy using it. The one I found is in the UK http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency/ - and then it is easy enough to convert pounds to dollars. Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-39644185234332989722016-04-12T13:31:03.866+01:002016-04-12T13:31:03.866+01:00Moira, I have read very little Trollope and that i...Moira, I have read very little Trollope and that includes his Autobiography, which I'd describe as brilliant writing. I recommend it to whoever seeks my advice on nonfiction. I'm interested in knowing more about the society Trollope wrote about as opposed to, say, that of Thomas Hardy which I'm familiar with. This particular novel, for instance, seems fairly bold for its time, as was Hardy's "Jude the Obscure" among other books.Prashant C. Trikannadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079354501998741758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-62211574237196189702016-04-12T05:58:36.595+01:002016-04-12T05:58:36.595+01:00I had thought I might like to try Trollope, but hi...I had thought I might like to try Trollope, but his books are (mostly) all so long. TracyKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08303342674824383688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-57737059512661546632016-04-12T01:19:53.436+01:002016-04-12T01:19:53.436+01:00I need to read more Trollope. Some years back I ha...I need to read more Trollope. Some years back I had a sort of Trollope marathon, but haven't looked at anything by him since then. I do love the rather dry and sarcastic first person narration, which gives the books such a modern feel. THE WARDEN has a lovely moment where Trollope comments about how the financial scandal concerning Mr Harding is treated by other novelists, especially Dickens, who is referred to as 'Mr Popular Sentiment'. Trollope is commenting on his own story as he tells it, which is very post-modern. It's the sort of thing that TV adaptions, however good, can't do. Like you say, DOCTOR THORNE isn't really about generating tension with various plot-twists, but more about making some very salient points about class and money.<br /><br />Bonnets have always reminded me of frilly buckets, and I wonder if they are the Victorian version of expensive shoes--some women love buying them, but most men can't tell a cheap one from an expensive one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-65662740856749506102016-04-11T16:42:01.463+01:002016-04-11T16:42:01.463+01:00I like the idea of a historic money converter. I&...I like the idea of a historic money converter. I'm often reading and when money is mentioned I wonder what it would be or cost in modern terms.Mac n' Janethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05732924562630675589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-11411377176193503322016-04-11T15:45:40.693+01:002016-04-11T15:45:40.693+01:00Did you ever read any of those Lawrence Stone book...Did you ever read any of those Lawrence Stone books on the history of marriage, divorce and the laws concerning them? I found them riveting, but too sad for words. Extraordinary stories of eg a 18thC woman whose husband ran off. So she set to, opened a hat shop, became a successful businesswoman. Husband tips up from wherever he's been, and is legally able to claim every penny she has made.Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-69589589245690547522016-04-11T15:41:59.436+01:002016-04-11T15:41:59.436+01:00I see what you mean - and Dr Thorne is not someone...I see what you mean - and Dr Thorne is not someone I would have any faith in in this respect. The question of settlements does come up in the book, with regard to the possible marriages of Frank's sisters ie the squire's daughters. Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-71053234290168327662016-04-11T15:03:32.090+01:002016-04-11T15:03:32.090+01:00Expectation? All a woman owned became her husband&...Expectation? All a woman owned became her husband's. People joked that a married woman owned nothing more than a hairbrush. Ha ha very funny I don't think!Lucy R. Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08632983296994349550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-51188976876964173982016-04-11T15:01:39.190+01:002016-04-11T15:01:39.190+01:00I meant tie up her property so that it was ipso fa...I meant tie up her property so that it was ipso facto hers! Perhaps giving them an income, but locked up so that Frank cdn't get his mitts on it. Only option open to kind-hearted Victorian dad.Lucy R. Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08632983296994349550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-21777210244172824142016-04-11T13:17:28.383+01:002016-04-11T13:17:28.383+01:00Yes indeed, but as I just said to Lucy above - at ...Yes indeed, but as I just said to Lucy above - at this stage Mary and Frank are not actually engaged, yet Dr Thorne (who is her guardian and the executor of the will by which she inherits) says Frank can now have back the property his father sold some years before, and move in 'tomorrow'. I think he would have had to wait till they were actually married...<br /><br />I'm doing a second post, which will also look at the TV series - I enjoyed it too, even though they had to compress. Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-80484486652662848342016-04-11T13:14:45.815+01:002016-04-11T13:14:45.815+01:00Ooh great point Margot! There is a moment where th...Ooh great point Margot! There is a moment where the Doctor says that on marriage "A man raises a woman to his own standard, but a woman must take that of the man she marries." Another interesting theory....<br /> Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-48904116896647622302016-04-11T13:13:45.258+01:002016-04-11T13:13:45.258+01:00Did you watch the recent ITV production, I enjoyed...Did you watch the recent ITV production, I enjoyed it, even though they distilled part of the novel into 3 hours. <br />Bonnets were an important part of a ladies wardrobe <br /><br />And whether we like it or not, the expectation then was that a woman's money would become her husbands. <br />Google Married Womans Property Act 1882Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02132990932997020431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-43754914507356888842016-04-11T13:13:29.992+01:002016-04-11T13:13:29.992+01:00The main action begins in 1854, and covers the nex...The main action begins in 1854, and covers the next couple of years. The pictures 1855. I was interested to see that in the TV version the young women wore wreaths of fresh flowers in their hair, which I presume is authentic....?<br />Married women's property - indeed. But Trollope really was jumping the gun saying Frank could move in 'tomorrow', as at this point he and Mary are not even officially engaged. Dr Thorne - very much the goodie - is not really shown as an honest broker in his business dealings with the various parties. <br />Clothes In Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680610242823846662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-54082388171768081812016-04-11T12:50:00.974+01:002016-04-11T12:50:00.974+01:00I find it really interesting what fashion used to ...I find it really interesting what fashion used to cost, Moira. I'm glad you gave some perspective there. This sounds like an interesting take on the 'rags to riches' theme, and what I find interesting is the difference between Mary's road to wealth, and that of the stereotypical Horatio Alger hero. Shows you the difference in the way the sexes are treated...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6129427507761315524.post-24472613173284221662016-04-11T11:00:58.139+01:002016-04-11T11:00:58.139+01:00And is it set in 1858? I hope? Interesting and rat...And is it set in 1858? I hope? Interesting and rather frumpy fashion moment. If Dr Thorne/Mary's uncle didn't tie up her money and property, it would all become Frank's when they married, despite "With all my wordly goods I thee endow". The CoE marriage service contained this outright lie for – centuries?Lucy R. Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08632983296994349550noreply@blogger.com